The Message Board for the Philippine Printing Industry (Established 2007)
 
HomePortalFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 Violet or Thermal light source

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:02 am

Hi Guys,

We're currently using 2 violet-diode CtPs and we're badly in need of a third one soon.

It seems so many folks who used to have violet-based platesetters are migrating to thermal technology which is, according to some, far, more superior than its counterpart. So, we thought we might as well go in the same direction and acquire a thermal CtP.

It's just that we were told that the thermal light source would have to be replaced every 7,000 power on-time hours. I learned from our vendor that a replacement would cost us.....well....ummm....a little over 200,000 Riyals...ONLY.

Sheesh! That's 2.5M pesos!!! With our workload we'd have to spend that much every 1.5 years!

The violet, on the other hand, will expire only after 35,000 imaging hours....roughly 8 years from the time we start using it. However, it has several disadvantages also especially when printing stochastic.

Thermal.....to be, or not to be. What do you think, guys?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
billy

avatar

Number of posts : 179
Age : 49
Location : makati
Member since : 2007-07-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:32 pm

Violet CTP will expose the plate even there is not enough power which means garbage plate. but for thermo, it simply eject the plate if it can not reach its minimum power
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:01 am

I agree with you, Billy. Thermo plates are much "safer" if you want to avoid exposure and TVI problems evident in other plate types. However, I think these issues are process-related and can be avoided with the implementation of basic process control systems.

Pero, worry ko is yung cost. Super laki ang gastos to replace the laser diodes. Okay lang siguro kung malaking printer ka...especially if you're into packaging kasi malaki din kinikita mo.

But what about small printers? Are they also willing to venture into a thermal imaging system knowing they would have to shell out 2 million bucks every 7,000 "office hours" for a replacement of laser diodes? Ano pa kaya kung 2 ang CtP mo? Gadz!

I may be wrong, but I honestly feel that if you're a small- to medium-size printer (just like us) who regularly print small runs (50K-150K impressions/job), then a violet imaging system on polymer plates should suffice PROVIDED that the staff is knowledgeable and are actually applying some sort of process controls in the plate room.

Oh, well, I guess it'll all boil down to the printer's expected quality level they wish to attain....and can maintain.

_________________________________
I earn a seven-digit salary. Unfortunately, there's a decimal involved.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
presstech

avatar

Number of posts : 256
Age : 69
Location : Metro Manila
Member since : 2007-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:28 pm

I guess that both systems (Thermal and Violet) have their advantages and disadvantages. I agree that the violet systems is the more practical system for small and medium size printers because of lower investment cost, lower maintenance cost and lower energy cost.

The problem in the Philippines is that the CtP suppliers are placing more emphasis on thermal. The only supplier I know offering violet CtP is Ideal Marketing; but they also carry the Kodak Thermal CtP and seem to be promoting it more than their ECRM violet CtP. Graphic Sales dropped the Luscher and Escher Grad Violets for the Screen Thermal. I no longer see the Highwater violet CtP in the ads of TGraph. This situation is unfortunate; because the majority of printers here are small and medium size.

Another problem here is the lack of violet CtP consumables. I think that violet plates are only available from 1 supplier. This discourages printers from considering the violet option when planning an upgrade to CtP.

Violet CtPs also suffer from the poor reputation of the first generation products. However, violet technology has experienced a lot of improvements especially with the higher powered lasers which have increased from the initial 5 mw to up to 100 mw. This have led to better plates which are safer to handle and much more durable.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:42 pm

presstech wrote:


Another problem here is the lack of violet CtP consumables. I think that violet plates are only available from 1 supplier. This discourages printers from considering the violet option when planning an upgrade to CtP.

Hi Sir presstech.

I believe you're referring to LAP-V plates, a.k.a. Silver plates. It's a positive plate solely manufactured by Agfa for violet CtPs. Photopolymer plates for violet light source are the most common nowadays and have so many suppliers in the market.


Last edited by larrysison on Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
billy

avatar

Number of posts : 179
Age : 49
Location : makati
Member since : 2007-07-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:38 am

One thing to consider is the mileage of the plates itself. if both has the same mileage or it can be preserved as what others do, then it is one advantage.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:37 pm

Regarding mileage the numbers vary

Thermal : 200K - 400K impressions (unbaked).
Photopolymer : 200K - 300K (unbaked).
Silver : 150K - 200K

IMO, if running is continuous, all 3 can easily print above 150K....maybe until 200K.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:25 pm

So many small printers here in KSA have acquired thermal CtPs.

Gadz! I really can't understand why some small and medium size publishing/printing companies need to spend more by going thermal. It just doesn't sound logical.

Anywho, just want to update you guys. We are going to get the Agfa Polaris to support our newspaper production. It is violet based and is super fast. As you know we are now exposing more than 500 plates per day for newspaper jobs alone.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
presstech

avatar

Number of posts : 256
Age : 69
Location : Metro Manila
Member since : 2007-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:34 pm

larrysison wrote:
Gadz! I really can't understand why some small and medium size publishing/printing companies need to spend more by going thermal. It just doesn't sound logical.

I agree with your observations.

I have seen the innards of the new FFEI Alinte violet CtP; and I can say with confidence that violet CtP's are lot lot easier to repair than a thermal CtP. As a matter of fact, they operate just like a drum imagesetter. Easier and lower cost of maintenance should be a major consideration in investing in a CtP.

Thermal CtP is popular here; but I will go for the logical and not the popular choice. Next year, I plan to purchase a used violet laser Heidelberg Prosetter CtP. bounce
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:06 pm

presstech wrote:
I guess that both systems (Thermal and Violet) have their advantages and disadvantages. I agree that the violet systems is the more practical system for small and medium size printers because of lower investment cost, lower maintenance cost and lower energy cost.

The problem in the Philippines is that the CtP suppliers are placing more emphasis on thermal. The only supplier I know offering violet CtP is Ideal Marketing; but they also carry the Kodak Thermal CtP and seem to be promoting it more than their ECRM violet CtP. Graphic Sales dropped the Luscher and Escher Grad Violets for the Screen Thermal. I no longer see the Highwater violet CtP in the ads of TGraph. This situation is unfortunate; because the majority of printers here are small and medium size.

Another problem here is the lack of violet CtP consumables. I think that violet plates are only available from 1 supplier. This discourages printers from considering the violet option when planning an upgrade to CtP.

Violet CtPs also suffer from the poor reputation of the first generation products. However, violet technology has experienced a lot of improvements especially with the higher powered lasers which have increased from the initial 5 mw to up to 100 mw. This have led to better plates which are safer to handle and much more durable.

Very good observation sir... I think that the buyer has to consider the plate suppliers. Nowadays, you can get a good priced thermal deal becauseo of the consumables involved.
BTW Graphic Sales dropped the Luscher because it is very expensive.. it is considered the Rolex of the CTPs. While the Escher Grad was discontinued (even without selling the first unit) because the problems encountered by a lot of users in India.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:43 pm

presstech wrote:

Another problem here is the lack of violet CtP consumables. I think that violet plates are only available from 1 supplier. This discourages printers from considering the violet option when planning an upgrade to CtP.

Hi Sir Fred. Tanong ko lang po bakit iisa lang ang supplier ng violet plates sa atin since marami naman ang nag ma-manufacture ng polymer plates?

Regards from Saudi Arabia.

Larry
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CIECAM

avatar

Number of posts : 58
Location : phil
Member since : 2008-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:29 pm

Siyempre Sir Larry, kung ano ang maraming binibili, yong gusto ibenta. Negosyo yan. unless hawak mo news na may violet CTP.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:23 pm

I see. Malaki ba ang price difference ng thermal and polymer plates?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:47 pm

Price difference between thermal and violet plates is not much but thermal plate supply is more abundant here in the Philippines.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
billy

avatar

Number of posts : 179
Age : 49
Location : makati
Member since : 2007-07-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:12 pm

To sum it up.

Violet CTP
1. Cost wise because of laser has longer life.
2. Good for long run (baked).
3. Good in power consumption because of 120mW.
4. Plates are double layered
5. It can only print 2% & 98% ( within ISO pa rin ito.)
6. Low Cost of investment.
7. laser can last up to 35,000 hrs


Thermal CTP.
1. Double layered plates has longer mileage, single layered has problems.
2. it can print 1% & 99%
3. higher screen ruling like 2oolpi and above ( kaya ba ito sa pilipinas?)
4. FM screening as fine as 10 microns. ( kaya ba rin natin dito?)
5. laser can last up to 6,000 hrs


Padagdag na lang po for everybody's consumption.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
presstech

avatar

Number of posts : 256
Age : 69
Location : Metro Manila
Member since : 2007-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:44 pm

Another factor to consider

Violet CtP brands (for commercial printing) available here: ECRM only.
Thermal CtP brands available here: Heidelberg, Screen, Kodak, Agfa.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ARC



Number of posts : 49
Location : Manila
Member since : 2010-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:52 pm


presstech wrote:
Another factor to consider

Violet CtP brands (for commercial printing) available here: ECRM only.
Thermal CtP brands available here: Heidelberg, Screen, Kodak, Agfa.


Hi Sirs,

How about UV CtP's using PS plates?

Do you think this technology can penetrate the ball game?

What brand is available in Manila?


ARC
Back to top Go down
View user profile
presstech

avatar

Number of posts : 256
Age : 69
Location : Metro Manila
Member since : 2007-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:33 pm

The only UV CtP being distributed here is Basysprint.

Here are some information regarding UV CtP here:
1. The price of thermal plates here have been going down; so there's no price advantage of PS plates over thermal plate. However, take note that chemical cost for PS plate processing is much lower than that for thermal CtP plates.
2. Resolution of UV CtP is generally lower than thermal CtP brands.
3. The cost of UV CtP platesetters here is higher than thermal CtP brands sold here.
4. Some UV CtP platesetter can also be used to expose other UV sensitive image carriers such as screen mesh for silk screen, copper plates for embossing, etc.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ARC



Number of posts : 49
Location : Manila
Member since : 2010-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:41 pm

Been hearing about some Chinese brand UV CTP.

Do you have any idea who are the re-selers in the Philippines? What brands are commonly sold in Manila? How are they compared to Basysprint?

Who is Basysprint distributor?

You are saying that the advantage using a PS plate over thermal plates is through it's chemical cost? Is this the only reason? Who are the users of these technology in the Philippines?

Thank you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
billy

avatar

Number of posts : 179
Age : 49
Location : makati
Member since : 2007-07-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:56 pm

ARC wrote:
Been hearing about some Chinese brand UV CTP.

Do you have any idea who are the re-selers in the Philippines? What brands are commonly sold in Manila? How are they compared to Basysprint?

Who is Basysprint distributor?

You are saying that the advantage using a PS plate over thermal plates is through it's chemical cost? Is this the only reason? Who are the users of these technology in the Philippines?

Thank you.

Never heard of basysprint disty in manila. And I heard basysprint discontinued the product ( i am not sure though)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
presstech

avatar

Number of posts : 256
Age : 69
Location : Metro Manila
Member since : 2007-05-29

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:32 pm

The Philippine distributor of Basysprint is Ferrostall.

The first user of Basysprint is Microsep. They purchased the unit many years ago, when thermal and violet plates were expensive. I don't know if they are still using it. You might try getting some feedback from them.

China has some UV CtP brands. However, it's important that there are local distributors for after-sales support.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ARC



Number of posts : 49
Location : Manila
Member since : 2010-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:12 pm

Is there a local distributor of a Chinese brand UV CTP?

Please comment.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
billy

avatar

Number of posts : 179
Age : 49
Location : makati
Member since : 2007-07-24

PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:54 pm

Itís important to remember that CTP is not an end in itself, but simply a step in the workflow of printing.
This makes it part of a printerís overall cost and service.
When a printer buys capital equipment, such as a CTP system, he or she wants to know what real
Advantages it will contribute to the business. So, let us consider what best CTP system ought to offer its
owner.

From a business viewpoint, the chief functions of a CTP system are
(1) to make plates that feed work to printing presses;
(2) to efficiently utilize people skills, resources and equipment; and
(3) to maximize printing revenue and reduce costs.

The printer who has the lowest overall cost and fastest service clearly will have an edge on all
competitors, plus the highest probability of profit. Thus, the business advantages of a good CTP system
are of greater importance than its technology Ė at least from the printerís business perspective.

Do not also forget one of the most important thing in having a CTP. The support, training of staff. Can this supplier support you in case your unit back down. what support they can give you. It is important for the supplier to have a demo unit para may magamit for output or mapagkahoyan ng parts otherwise parang disposable na ctp ang binili mo.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Violet or Thermal light source   

Back to top Go down
 
Violet or Thermal light source
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» RAF given green light to shoot down hostile Russian jets in Syria
» Clintons fiercely suppressing movie putting them in bad light
» World's first 100 watt equivalent LED replacement bulb
» A light at the end of the tunnel for northerners?
» 06-Mar-2012 Corporate Disclosure - CSF

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Filipino Printers Forum :: Printing in General :: Printing in General-
Jump to: