The Message Board for the Philippine Printing Industry (Established 2007)
 
HomePortalFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:44 pm

presstech wrote:

3. The gcr setting in PS Color Setting should be set at low. The default is medium. This will limit the black ink to the areas above 70%, effectively removing black from the flesh tones. Less black will also reduce the rosette effect; which comes out when cyan, magenta and black with dot sizes below 50% are combined.

Low GCR....good for commercial production. If I have a job requiring vibrant colors (i.e. Avon, Loreal makeup, Magazine covers, etc..) I'd go with a separation with short Black (Light GCR/UCR). But for newspaper printing I may humbly prefer a Medium to Heavy GCR.

In theory, Light GCR can give more color in newspaper production. But in practice this will cause more trouble. Here's the logic:

* Using Light GCR makes more CMY and less K
* More CMY in file means bigger dots in the CMY plates
* Bigger dots in CMY dry longer on newsprint resulting to setoff problems
* Bigger dots on CMY plates are harder to control on a web coldset press running between 20K to 70K impressions per hour
* Hue Variations are Likely
* Gray Balance hard to maintain on all printing towers
* Resulting to Higher Startup and Running Waste

ISO 12647-3 (4.2.6):
NOTE 1:
GCR is recommended for newspaper colour separations, because it reduces colour and hue variations during print run.


Majority of newspaper printers prefer using a long black separation (Medium to Heavy GCR) than short black for practical reasons. Otherwise color shifts (High Delta E & Hue Angle)and color casts (High Delta C) will be evident with the slightest variation on the press.

If I may I just want to share to everyone what we have learned from Ifra. Please see illustration below. You can see that as the GCR gets stronger, the Delta E and the Hue Angle of the Tertiary colors are improved.

GCR Levels and Color Variations



GCR Levels and Chromatic Ink Reduction


CONCLUSION: Both the color tone fluctuation as well as the total color fluctuation are REDUCED if the chromatic colors (CMY) are reduced in favor of Black. It was established that even a moderate GCR results in a reduction of the colour fluctuations of more than 20%. Ink consumption of chromatic inks is reduced by 25% to 50%. If the rosette pattern will be highly visible, it is recommended to print with a screen ruling of 100 lpi. Source: Ifra Special Report 2.16

Btw, the ISO icc profiles for both newspaper (Ifra) and commercial (ECI) are based on long black separations. I think for Ifra profile Black starts replacing the CMY from 5% and ECI profiles begins at 10%.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
presstech

avatar

Number of posts : 256
Age : 69
Location : Metro Manila
Member since : 2007-05-29

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:55 am

Hi Larry,

what you are saying is right.

Actually my suggestion of using a low gcr would really run counter to standard practice. I know this; because I wrote an article titled "Understanding Gray Component Replacement or GCR". The article was printed in the "Grafika" magazine 7 years ago. It is also posted in the Philippine Printing - Online at http://philprinting.com/Technical%20Articles/Understanding%20GCR/understanding%20gcr.htm. After reading this article, one will wonder why I am suggesting a procedure that does not conform to what I wrote.

When I did consultancy work for a newspaper publisher a few years ago, one of the problems I had to solve was what management called "buhangin" in the faces of people in the printed images. I realized that what they were complaining about was actually the rosette patterns. Increasing the screen resolution was not an option; because the press was already having difficulty with 85 lpi. Since the rosette patterns were produced by the combination of the visible dot colors of cyan, magenta and black, I came up with the idea of breaking the rosette patterns by removing the black dots in the areas where cyan and magenta were less than 50%. These included the flesh tone areas, which were the concern of management. The easiest way to do this was to reduce gcr; and IT WORKED.

The presses also were encountering registration problems. A high gcr resulted in white lines appearing in areas where low and high densities met. White borders appearing in the areas between the hair and face had to be avoided. Low gcr setting solved this problem too.

As you mentioned, with low gcr, gray balance is harder to maintain. For this reason, I had gray balance patches placed hidden in the page design to help the press operators control ink balance.

The reduction in the total ink limit setting helped solve the setoff problem caused by the bigger cmy dots, since this problem normally occurs in the shadow areas.

Most printing companies in the Philippines have to, unfortunately, make do with facilities that are way below that of other more developed country. Because of this situation, we have to sometimes use procedures which may not follow the standards used in plants with better equipment.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:43 am

presstech wrote:
When I did consultancy work for a newspaper publisher a few years ago, one of the problems I had to solve was what management called "buhangin" in the faces of people in the printed images. I realized that what they were complaining about was actually the rosette patterns....

Now I understand perfectly why you recommended against the norm. I have to fully agree that in this particular situation....when such problems arise.....UCR or Light GCR is the preferred workaround to reduce the muddy effect on the shadow areas as well as the visibility of the rosettes. My humble apologies.

But there is another way, Sir Fred. I don't know if the Eagle RIP has it but the Harlequin gives you the option to choose between a Dot-Centered or Clear-Centered Rosette. Doing so will actually make the images lighter especially on the shadow areas. Finally, since it's still long black....the colors will be more stable during the run. What do you think?

With this at least one can still work on long black separations while having a less-visible rose effect. To add, they can adjust the starting point of black instead of starting at 5%, they can move it a bit to 10% or even 15%.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will keep that in mind should I come across a similar situation.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:57 am

presstech wrote:
The reduction in the total ink limit setting helped solve the setoff problem caused by the bigger cmy dots, since this problem normally occurs in the shadow areas.

Ifra recommends a TAC of 220% provided that your maximum black is around 95% to ensure image contrast. For this purpose the ISOnewspaper26v4.icc profile has a TAC of 220% only.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:51 am

Maybe it was just me.

Usually when using GCR with heavy black generation, it affects significantly cyan separation. It boost magenta and yellow separations. Usually cyan separation in skin tones is almost negligible.

I believed cyan is the one that makes grey balance difficult in UCR or even in GCR with light black generation.

What are the beauties of using GCR with heavy black generation?

1. Save a lot of CMY inks.
2. Boost magenta and yellow without much worry of the grey balance.

Danger of "artifacts" is usually due to inappropriate application of sharpenings and could be also due to some variables in the press like blankets.

GCR with heavy black generation is taking away more informations from cyan separation.

Just my 2 cents.


Alex Dulay
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:01 am

And if I may add, inappropriate screen angles can also cause unwanted patterns.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:44 pm

Staccato or FM screening will do the same and much more...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:07 pm

WORKFLOW wrote:
Staccato or FM screening will do the same and much more...

I've seen many European newspapers printed with a non-periodic screening. Maganda nga talaga. Very sharp. Sakto lang ang ink film thickness. But these were printed on a waterless press. Wala kasing ink keys ang waterless kaya mahirap mag overink.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:56 am

Quote :
Staccato or FM screening will do the same and much more...

No, it won't work in most newspaper printers in the Philippines.

Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:32 am

Alex Dulay wrote:
Quote :
Staccato or FM screening will do the same and much more...

No, it won't work in most newspaper printers in the Philippines.

Very Happy

May I know why it will not work?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:48 pm

because of the press conditions, paper supply, fountain solution and inks. Maybe the top 3 could do it
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:34 pm

Pwede naman pero kailangan kilatisin buong production workfow from editorial, prepress, and especially at the press.

Kung molleton or brush system ka and yung ads na dumating ay high TAC (300% ++) tapos di mo ito inayos......sigurado....you will have plugging and setoff problems when going with FM. So dapat all these high-TAC advertisements should be "devicelinked" from 300%++ to about 220%.

Next, FM produces higher TVI curve compared with analogue systems. Ngayon kung luma ang dampening system (brush, molleton) the TVI curve will go definitely higher. Pwede mo naman i-adjust ito sa RIP pero, kung masyadong malaki ang adjustments mo sa RIP you will have tone problems too.

Sa mga lumang presses na gustong mag stochastic pwede naman pero they will have to inspect their presses in detail kasi kailangan talaga super ayos ang condition ng press mo to run FM. Isa dito ay ayusin ang dampening system.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:44 pm

Alex Dulay wrote:
because of the press conditions, paper supply, fountain solution and inks. Maybe the top 3 could do it

???? huh? duh!....
then I rest my case with the arguments on the ISO standardization on the other thread (ISO 12647-7 Using Inkjet Proofing topic). Funny... ISO has so many specifications that some are claiming that they can print ISO... now you are saying that nobody (except the top 3) can do Staccato in the Philippines because of the above... oh c'mon..

Maybe we have to get Staccato Implementation certification first before we try printing Staccato... and display it on the prepress front door panel bounce
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:55 pm

WORKFLOW wrote:
... now you are saying that nobody (except the top 3) can do Staccato in the Philippines because of the above... oh c'mon..

Hi WORKFLOW. The top 3 players (Inquirer, MB & Phil. Star) will most likely have a successful FM screening implementation.....I agree....because of their "relatively newer" presses, better tension control, better dampening system, better maintenance program, more qualified employees, and they have deeper pockets.

Also, because of their bulk orders, they are in a better position to negotiate with their ink manufacturer to alter their ink parameters to better print FM.

Please take time to consider the things we have mentioned. These are very valid points.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:13 pm

Btw, while we're at it....can you name one newspaper in the P.I. using Staccato? Actions speak louder than words. Basketball
Back to top Go down
View user profile
aurelzki



Number of posts : 15
Location : manila
Member since : 2009-08-15

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:20 pm

PASINGIT...

Just wanna ask kung ano ang tamang settings para sa newsprint 66.0 gsm, naghihimulmol kasi ang output namin sa papel na'to, na try ko na 100, 120 & 133 lpi ganun pa rin ang output.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:57 pm

Quote :
???? huh? duh!....
then I rest my case with the arguments on the ISO standardization on the other thread (ISO 12647-7 Using Inkjet Proofing topic). Funny... ISO has so many specifications that some are claiming that they can print ISO... now you are saying that nobody (except the top 3) can do Staccato in the Philippines because of the above... oh c'mon..

Maybe we have to get Staccato Implementation certification first before we try printing Staccato... and display it on the prepress front door panel bounce

No more further comments, sorry.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Doctor Blade

avatar

Number of posts : 63
Location : Quezon City
Member since : 2009-10-25

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:04 am

larrysison wrote:
WORKFLOW wrote:
... now you are saying that nobody (except the top 3) can do Staccato in the Philippines because of the above... oh c'mon..

Hi WORKFLOW. The top 3 players (Inquirer, MB & Phil. Star) will most likely have a successful FM screening implementation.....I agree....because of their "relatively newer" presses, better tension control, better dampening system, better maintenance program, more qualified employees, and they have deeper pockets.

Also, because of their bulk orders, they are in a better position to negotiate with their ink manufacturer to alter their ink parameters to better print FM.

Please take time to consider the things we have mentioned. These are very valid points.

There is readily available ink for Staccato.
Inquirer manufacture their own inks.
Manila Bulletin and Star will have a less successful implementation of FM screening because they have violet CTPs. You forgot to consider the prepress. Inquirer on the other hand have thermal and they even have the capability to do 10-micron FM screens. Cool
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:12 am

Hi Doctor Blade. You're right, if you're using violet then limited ka sa analog screens. Violet nga pala ang Star. I was there nung ini-install yun.

May bagong web coldset na ba nag Inquirer? Last time I was there Man Uniman, 14 units of Harris Cotrell, and some other older machines ang gamit nila. Pero hanep ang maintenance. Humahataw pa rin kahit luma.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Doctor Blade

avatar

Number of posts : 63
Location : Quezon City
Member since : 2009-10-25

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:22 am

Hi LS, unfortunately I cannot comment on what equipment they have on the press side though I do know what they have... but yeah you're right they have intensive maintenance program.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:30 am

Thanks Doctor Blade. No problems. I understand perfectly.

Going back, just want to add na pwede naman mag FM or XM with violet pero with Silver plates nga lang. Maganda din ang silver plates since it can match thermal's smallest dot. That's according to Agfa.

Currently we're using silver plates on violet CTPs. Alex Dulay is now testing the Sublima.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Doctor Blade

avatar

Number of posts : 63
Location : Quezon City
Member since : 2009-10-25

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:50 am

larrysison wrote:
Thanks Doctor Blade. No problems. I understand perfectly.

Going back, just want to add na pwede naman mag FM or XM with violet pero with Silver plates nga lang. Maganda din ang silver plates since it can match thermal's smallest dot. That's according to Agfa.

Currently we're using silver plates on violet CTPs. Alex Dulay is now testing the Sublima.

I would assume you are overseas? Or you might be getting the silver plates from abroad if you are here in the Philippines because silver plate supply in Philippines is scarce and will be much expensive than a thermal plate.
Hybrid screening has a lot of benefits over an AM but you may want to watch on your "flat tints" because hybrid can produce unwanted results on flat tint areas. Please keep us posted on your sublima testing. Thanks.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Doctor Blade

avatar

Number of posts : 63
Location : Quezon City
Member since : 2009-10-25

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:01 am

WORKFLOW wrote:
Alex Dulay wrote:
because of the press conditions, paper supply, fountain solution and inks. Maybe the top 3 could do it

???? huh? duh!....
then I rest my case with the arguments on the ISO standardization on the other thread (ISO 12647-7 Using Inkjet Proofing topic). Funny... ISO has so many specifications that some are claiming that they can print ISO... now you are saying that nobody (except the top 3) can do Staccato in the Philippines because of the above... oh c'mon..

Maybe we have to get Staccato Implementation certification first before we try printing Staccato... and display it on the prepress front door panel bounce

I read the related threads and I guess what you are trying to imply. I agree, yes Staccato implementation will be much easier than following the ISO specifications to the letter and try to print it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:19 pm

larrysison wrote:
Btw, while we're at it....can you name one newspaper in the P.I. using Staccato? Actions speak louder than words. Basketball

Printown (printer of Daily Inquirer) used Staccato to print carton packaging for cellular phones (export

quality). They also used FM screening in some issues of the Toys for the Big Boys magazine.

Some issues of the K-Zone magazine were printed with FM screening.
United Graphics used to print FM screening for their customer, RFM during the times of Mr. Tom Huing.

Primex, one of the printers who knows about value printing (one of the reasons behind being a consistent winner in

the Asian Print Awards) also implements Staccato with their Trendsetter CTP.

It goes to show that you get more benefits with Staccato implementation as compared to an effort trying to achieve

the ISO standard. And do you have any idea as to how much a printer is paying for the consultants for ISO

standardization? You will be amazed with the talent fee dude!

Some of the benefits of FM screening are:
- ink savings
- increased saturation
- better tolerance to misregistration
- high fidelity (photographic quality)
- quicker drying time

I admire you for not mentioning Summit Media printers to be implementing ISO standards in their magazine prints. But of course, you know that if you did -- you will be merely telling a lie. jocolor
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:26 pm

larrysison wrote:
Thanks Doctor Blade. No problems. I understand perfectly.

Going back, just want to add na pwede naman mag FM or XM with violet pero with Silver plates nga lang. Maganda din ang silver plates since it can match thermal's smallest dot. That's according to Agfa.

Currently we're using silver plates on violet CTPs. Alex Dulay is now testing the Sublima.

I wonder what violet CTP you are printing silver plates with? Silver plates require less laser power to image... how can you image silver plates using a CTP designed to shoot laser on polyester plates???

IMHO
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:27 pm

Doctor Blade wrote:
WORKFLOW wrote:
Alex Dulay wrote:
because of the press conditions, paper supply, fountain solution and inks. Maybe the top 3 could do it

???? huh? duh!....
then I rest my case with the arguments on the ISO standardization on the other thread (ISO 12647-7 Using Inkjet Proofing topic). Funny... ISO has so many specifications that some are claiming that they can print ISO... now you are saying that nobody (except the top 3) can do Staccato in the Philippines because of the above... oh c'mon..

Maybe we have to get Staccato Implementation certification first before we try printing Staccato... and display it on the prepress front door panel bounce

I read the related threads and I guess what you are trying to imply. I agree, yes Staccato implementation will be much easier than following the ISO specifications to the letter and try to print it.

Precisely!!! Thanks Doc.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:34 am

Sorry, I thought you were talking about using FM screening in Philippine newspapers.

BTW, silk screen printers used FM screening also.

I just don't get it your what's your problem with ISO standardization. FM screening is screening (obvious). It's just part of the whole process. Also included in ISO is standardizing employees/bosses behavior. ISO standardization is not an easy path for organization who are afraid to changes and "NO MEANS TO PAY".

Whether we used FM, AM, or XM (hybrid), we follow scientific procedures. We know if we are short or exceeds ISO target values. We know what is the acceptable TVI at 50% wether FM, AM, or XM. We optimized densities to avoid set off. We know what to do to customer's digital files. We know if customer's supply proof (kahit saan pa sya nanggaling na digital proofers) can be reproduced in our press. And so on and on and on...

For the record, I had no problem with any screening technology. I will use any of it if I have a means.


Last edited by Alex Dulay on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:35 am

Quote :
I wonder what violet CTP you are printing silver plates with? Silver plates require less laser power to image... how can you image silver plates using a CTP designed to shoot laser on polyester plates???

Now you are starting to be funny... Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:55 am

Hi Workflow. Dont get me wrong but if I were using thermals then I'd go for Staccato. But we're discussing the possible problems of implementing it on newspapers in the P.I. And Doctor Blade, Alex and I have added some good info on the topic. Now, if you think implementing it is easy, please tell us why. This way we could have a meaningful discussion.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:25 am

Quote :
I wonder what violet CTP you are printing silver plates with? Silver plates....
We have 2 Agfa systems.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:04 am

Alex Dulay wrote:
Sorry, I thought you were talking about using FM screening in Philippine newspapers.

BTW, silk screen printers used FM screening also.

I just don't get it your what's your problem with ISO...

I have nothing against ISO standardization. In fact, I am looking forward on the day that say 50% in the Philippines can print in this standard. The posts you and Larry in this forum will certainly help a lot. Yet, this is a forum, and that is why we are exchanging views. Not just to give our piece of knowledge and advice but to help make decisions.

And all I am saying is: if I am to invest between implementing FM screening on my prints and pursuing ISO, the first one will be my priority.
Maybe the reason that I seem to be against ISO (which I'm not) because I have seen several printers who tried to implement it but just get their pockets drained without getting any benefits. There are some people (consultants and suppliers) that uses ISO standard, to make money. I cannot blame them, but they should let the printers savour the fruit of their endeavour by guiding them until they attain their goal (not just dump them when they get paid) than urging them to display it as status symbol. IMHO
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WORKFLOW

avatar

Number of posts : 34
Location : Manila
Member since : 2009-10-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:28 am

larrysison wrote:
Hi Workflow. Dont get me wrong but if I were using thermals then I'd go for Staccato. But we're discussing the possible problems of implementing it on newspapers in the P.I. And Doctor Blade, Alex and I have added some good info on the topic. Now, if you think implementing it is easy, please tell us why. This way we could have a meaningful discussion.

Hi Larry,
No, you can even use FM screening on a CTF, on an ECRM CTP and any brand of CTF or CTP. It will depend on what type of job you want to have Staccato.
If I have a poster job (assuming no repeat order) to be run on a single press machine -- then I can bravely say that I can print it using FM screening on my old Dolev 800 CTF with Harlequin RIP. The adjustment to be made is on the prepress side (specially the tonal calibration curve on the RIP). The pressman has to be advised also on what to expect during make-ready.
If you a have a packaging job (with repeat orders) to be run on a single press machine... you must have a CTP. You can do it on a violet CTP but with more effort on the process control.
A job with repeat orders and to be run on several press machines -- the only way to go is Thermal CTP.
Also, there is a software called SPOTLESS X from Kodak wherein you can substitute 6 colors to cover almost 80-90% of the Pantone colors using Thermal CTP and Staccato screening. In fact, the latest Pantone swatch book was printed using this technology. If you will try to look on the Pantone swatch with a lens you will notice that some of the supposedly solid color is actually screened.
If somebody has to go beyond the norm (e.g. from AM to FM) there will always be hardships along the way, nothing is easy. But remember... no pain no gain.
Happy threading...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex Dulay



Number of posts : 108
Location : Manila
Member since : 2008-12-30

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:57 pm

Quote :
Maybe the reason that I seem to be against ISO (which I'm not) because I have seen several printers who tried to implement it but just get their pockets drained without getting any benefits. There are some people (consultants and suppliers) that uses ISO standard, to make money. I cannot blame them, but they should let the printers savour the fruit of their endeavour by guiding them until they attain their goal (not just dump them when they get paid) than urging them to display it as status symbol. IMHO

I understood. However most of the problems lie in the printing company. It's not consultant's fault if a printing company's choice is not to practiced ISO standards and opted just to hang their certificates on the wall. You see ISO certificate is very expensive. Certification is done in just 1-day. This means that before a company call any certifying organization for ex. UGRA, the printing company should had practicing already the SOPs from file acceptance to printing a job. Printing company can call consultants to train them prior the certification. Take note, consultants must be ISO certified experts. For obvious reason, to make sure the printing company is doing the required processes.

Anyway, who knows, maybe in the future there could be some new experts that will really help the printing industries in the Philippines.

Lastly, if process standards are followed, using any kind of screening technology can be "easily" implemented.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:29 pm

Alex Dulay wrote:
...Take note, consultants must be ISO certified experts...

Alex, you mean....Consultants must be PSO certified experts. Meaning they should be experts in all 9 requirements:

1. ISO 15076 Color Management
2. ISO 15930 PDF/X Standard
3. ISO 12646 Display Standard
4. ISO 12647 Printing Standard
5. ISO 12647-7 Proofing Standard
6. ISO 3664 Illumination Standard
7. ISO 9001 Organization & Documentation
8. Best practices in CTP
9. Auditing Techniques
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sandman

avatar

Number of posts : 404
Location : Middle East
Member since : 2007-11-21

PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:09 pm

Alex Dulay wrote:

Anyway, who knows, maybe in the future there could be some new experts that will really help the printing industries in the Philippines.

AMEN BRO Twisted Evil AMEN Evil or Very Mad
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing   

Back to top Go down
 
GCR Levels in Newspaper Printing
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Newspaper Articles - Guideline for Postings
» Money printing rises to 87% of liquidity
» My humble request to Admin Regarding News article posting.
» CSE to introduce new global index in March
» PCH Vs RICH at current levels

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Filipino Printers Forum :: Technical Topics :: Prepress-
Jump to: